NoFap – Long Flatline After Quitting Porn (Answers)

NoFap And A Long Flatline After Quitting Porn

Some people get stuck in a very long flatline when they stop fapping to porn and embark on a NoFap journey.

This is very unfortunate, since getting their libido to respond more positively to real life people is often the biggest reason for why guys quit porn in the first place.

So naturally, if the opposite happens, it can really feel like fate is shoveling shit in your face.

However, rest assured, quitting porn is still a great thing to do in order to get that libido pumping for real life hotties. It's just that the recovery process can look very different depending on the individual.

If YOU are stuck in a long flatline after quitting porn…

If you are one of the guys who seem to be stuck in a very long flatline after quitting porn I recommend you bookmark this page because I'm planning to make this post the ultimate source for guys who are struggle with this.

Bookmark it now – because I will come back and make constant updates here, where I share what solutions me and my clients, as well what other rebooters,  have found helpful for getting their libido going again.

Here are some examples of what you will find on this page…

  • How common is it that we get stuck in a long flatline?
  • Why does it happen?
  • What can we do to help speed up the process?
  • Should we try to “kickstart” our libido or not?
  • What should we avoid during the PMO reboot process?
  • All about having sex during rebooting…(can it prolong the flatline?…can it make the flatline shorter …what about tools for erection quality…etc?)

Okay, so once again, bookmark this page and get ready…

…because here we go…

How common is it to get stuck in a long flatline after quitting porn?

From all the data I've seen over the years, I would estimate that…

  • More than 77% of guys will get away with a flatline lasting only 10-70 days.
  • About 12% of guys will have to face a flatline that lasts between 3-4 months.
  • About 13 % seem to have to face a flatline that lasts longer than 4 months.
  • About 3-4% will unfortunately stay stuck in a flatline for up to a year, or even longer.

Note the overlap between time frames. This is because the data is collected from not just one single source. 

Most people experience a flatline lasting anywhere from 10-70 days…

Most rebooters have a flatline that range anywhere between 10-70 days. Once that initial flatline stretch is over, those  people start to feel connected to their libido again.

Sure, it's common to have periods of days, or even a couple of weeks, where the flatline seems to be back. But most of the time those are merely slight dips where the libido is taking its last couple of, well needed, breaths before if finally emerges stronger than ever.

However, not for everyone…

Some guys will have to face a much longer flatline than that and some even get stuck in a, seemingly, never ending period of little to no libido.

The poll below is just one resource taken into account when coming up with the numbers you just read. I'm also considering all the anecdotal data from stories I've read after having been involved in the rebooting community for 10 years by now ( first as a rebooting porn addict myself, and now the last few years as a coach, helping people with rebooting issues).

More than 1300 people participated in the poll…

Does everyone Flatline?

Not everyone who stops using porn will even face the flatline.

According to another poll I made on my YouTube channel, only about…

  • 59% could with certainty say that they experienced the flatline.
  • 28% were not entirely sure.
  • 13% said that they never experienced it.

So, why do some people get away with, either very mild flatline symptoms or then, having no flatline at all?

How come some people can get away with no flatline at all?

This is not yet fully understood.

We do, however, know that the flatline is a ‘modern phenomenon' and is only affecting people who have been a consumer of internet porn.

For example…

Back in the day before the internet was a thing, guys did not descend into a flatline when they enlisted in the army and were abstinent for long periods of time. In fact, they only got hornier and hornier. This is natural and the way mother nature intended it to be.

Yet, today, when people quit porn and stop masturbating for some time, a lot of them face a period where they have a complete complete loss of libido for a few weeks. I.e. they descend into what porn rebooters call “the flatline”.

Guys who face a flatline have probably developed addiction related brain changes…

Considering this, it becomes obvious that all the years of consuming online porn has caused addiction related brain changes, or at least some form of brain changes. Then, when giving it up, the brain is protesting by causing withdrawal like symptoms. And a complete loss of libido seems to be part of those.

Guys who do not face a flatline when embarking on a NoFap journey have probably not been affected by the porn as much as the guys who lose their libido. Not everyone who drinks alcohol recreationally develop an addiction either.

No one has yet a full understanding of exactly what the flatline is, but I personally have a theory that I will present in the end of this article

If stuck in a long flatline – should we try to “kickstart” our libido or not?

This is the million dollar question.

There are two schools of thoughts…

  1. The arousal method
  2. The monk mode method

They simply mean, as follows…

  • Monk mode method: reboot – rewire and wait for your libido to return before becoming sexually active with a real life person…
  • Arousal method: reboot – rewire and try going for sex with a real life person, even if you see no signs of libido in order to try to wake up your sleeping libido. I.e. try to kickstart it.

When it comes to the arousal method, some even advocate trying to kickstart the libido with a couple of porn-free orgasms, if they happen to bee stuck in a very long flatline. And, for some, that can actually work very well. But for others…

…not so much.

So, which of those two schools of thoughts are correct?

Well, neither!

Or, both!

Depending on how you look at it.

Initial rebooting phase = rest first…

One thing to note, though: it has been shown that the fastest way to reboot, for most people, is to go the first couple (2-3 months) without any arousal at all. This, in order to really give the sexual circuitry in the brain a much needed brake. After which the person should start focusing more on rewiring.

Rewiring mens spending time around real life people to try to teach the brain that it's there the libido is to be functioning, instead of in front of your laptop.

That's really the ABC or rebooting, and so far almost everyone seems to agree.

But after that initial phase, then what…?

But after that, if the guys still remain stuck in a never ending flaltine, what is the best way forward then?

It is that period forward that we're talking about here in this article.

And, it is that period that seem to be highly individual where the best way forward depends on the person.

Let's take a look at another poll I made on my YouTube channel Project Stronger Self, where I asked my subscribers the following question…

For those of you who experienced a very long NoFap flatline (LONGER THAN 6 MONTHS) what do you think was the most pivotal thing you did to get your libido back?

As you can see, 472 guys voted, so this is a pretty decent poll, presenting valuable data.

One big conclusion we can draw form the three options above is….

  • 50% of guys found that eliminating ALL arousal helped them get out of the flatline (no arousal method).
  • The other 50% found that getting aroused from time to time (with real life people) finally helped them out of the flatline (arousal method / kickstart libido).

Also note that, out of the arousal group…

  • 24% kept ejaculating from time to time…
  • 26% were physically close to, and perhaps being aroused, but with zero ejaculations…

What does the “arousal group” mean?…

 

It simply means guys putting themselves into a situation where their sexuality should be active.

Examples…

  • Having sex
  • Kissing
  • Cuddling
  • Fooling around
  • Or even just being physically very close to someone you objectively find attractive.

The other 50% of guys chose to go completely “monk mode” with not even dating etc.

Now, since they all were in a flatline, we should probably point out that the arousal group did probably not experience THAT strong arousal, because if they did, it wouldn't have been indicative of a deep flatline to begin with. So we are probably talking moderate arousal levels here.

Or then there were guys who experienced high arousal levels during the meeting, but then fell back into the flatline as soon as the meeting was over, only to be stuck with no libido for several weeks again (as that is a very normal scenario as well).

So if 50% of people find the “arousal way ” to be the fastest way out of the flatline while  the other 50% find “munk mode” to be best, how am I supposed to know what to try myself?

Tricky situation, huh?

Since it's about 50/50 it's hard to know what's the best way forward for YOU.

I mean, if it were 90/10, statistically you should first try the 90% group. But now it's about as close to 50/50 it can get…

… so here's my suggestion to you….

If what you are doing right now isn't working…

If you kept doing one thing for a very long time and you still see no improvements, it's time to try another way forward. And, don't just give up on that other way immediately either if nothing is happening for the first 1-2 months. Patience and flexibility is key to a good reboot.

You have to be patient and adapt a flexible mindset. You also have to be courageous and willing to experiment.

Let's take a look at a few rebooting scenario examples for you to consider…

Rebooting scenarios for you to consider if you're stuck in a long flatline…

Let's say you first rebooted the classic way…

The classic reboot: (90 Days no porn no masturbation and no orgasm)

Further examples…

  • You didn't even date during the first 3 months when you did the classic reboot…
  • Then you start dating, in your fourth month, but you're still in a flatline
  • Now, in your fourth month, you find that you can barely perform in the bedroom and after ejaculation you seem to fall back into an even deeper flatline.

What do you do now?

Here you have to be brave enough to experiment to see what'll get you the best results. At least one thing is absolutely 100% clear; going back to porn is NOT an option and would not help at all in the long run.

That would only ensure you never get your sexuality back, so at least that option is totally out of the picture.

How do you proceed AFTER the classic reboot if you're not happy with your results?…

So, if you're not happy with your libido and sexual performance after the classic reboot, how do you move forward?

Let's take a look at a few options…

Option 1 (monk mode)

  • You decide to wait for another 90 days before trying to go for sex again.
  • You stay away from dating as well because you feel it's perhaps safer to really give your sexuality a complete rest, so you don't want to put yourself in any situation (real or fake) where you could become a bit aroused.
  • You don't masturbate and you don't go back to porn.
  • It will be 90 days without any arousal at all – complete monk mode.

Option 2 (no sex & light arousal mode)

  • You decide to wait for another 90 days before trying to go for sex.
  • However, you keep dating, cuddling and kissing during these 90 days.
  • You don't masturbate and you don't go back to porn.
  • It will be 90 days without any ejaculations.

Option 3 (light sex, but no ejaculation mode)

  • You keep trying to have sex, but for another 90 days you have slow sex without ejaculations (this style of making love is called karezza).
  • You keep dating, kissing and cuddling a lot as well, in order to help your brain rewire.
  • You don't masturbate -other than sometimes just for a few seconds before entering your partner- in order to ensure your penis is hard enough for penetration.
  • You keep doing this for 90 days.

Option 4 (light sex and light ejaculation mode)

  • You keep trying to have sex, but you space out the orgasms and limit them to having just one once every 10-14 days or so.
  • You keep kissing and cuddling a lot as well in order to help your brain rewire.
  • You don't masturbate -other than sometimes just a few seconds before entering your partner- in order to ensure your penis is hard enough for penetration.
  • You keep doing this for 90 days.

All of those options might not be suitable for you…

All of the above options have indeed been taking millions of guys out of a fltaline, but the tricky thing here is that all of them might not be suitable to you.

The trick here is being brave enough to experiment.

Going forward on your journey should now consist of the following…

  • Experiment
  • Reassess
  • Calibrate
  • Repeat

Let's say you went for option 1 after your initial classic reboot… 

Option 1 was…

  • You decide to wait for another 90 days before trying to go for sex again
  • You stay away from dating as well because you feel it's perhaps safer to really give your sexuality a complete rest.
  • You don't masturbate and you don't go back to porn
  • It will be 90 days without any arousal at all – complete monk mode.

And if you don't remember, the scenario was you not beeing happy with your current libido situation after the initial rebooting phase.

Ok, so now you been pretty much “monking” along for a total of 6 months with the exception of a few sexual attempts in month number 4.

And let's say you STILL don't feel any libido at all after adding option 1 after your initial rebooting phase.

Well, if you still have no libido after option 1, it means you've pretty much been stuck in a flatline for 6 months now.

And nothing is changing…

…perhaps it's time to try a different approach?

I'd say, hell yes!

Change your approach!

If you otherwise been living healthy, having a good physical exercise regimen and a good diet, the reward system in your brain should at least be somewhat recovered by now.

So going forward form here should definitely be more about rewiring and reactivating your libido.

And even if some part of your brain still needs a bit more rest, dating and fooling around shouldn't be affecting that part so strongly that it can't keep recovering as you go forward with your new approach (just as long as you don't go overboard with the arousal – for example, you could consider option 2-3).

For guys who have been doing total monk mode (except for just a couple of attempts at sex) and are still flatlining after 6 months, I do recommend they try to introduce some of the more arousing options mowing forward. But don't go overboard either. Think: build…it…up.

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Max 90 more days in monk mode…

If you still want to do some more time in monk mode, just to be on the safe side, I would at the very most advice just one more 90 day period of that. Then you have had a total of 9 months without any arousal at all and that just have to be enough for your exhausted sexuality to recover.

And if you still haven't noticed any improvements after those 9 months, now I would definitely, have you try the some of the other options moving forward.

I would recommend option 2 or option 3. I wouldn't even be afraid to try option 4 for a a month or so, just to see how your sexuality responds. It could be just what's needed in order to wake your sleeping libido.

As with everything in life, if what you are doing isn't working – you gotta be brave enough to change your approach.

If you feel very unsure about how to move forward, you can always reach out to me for a 1 on 1 coaching session through my contact page right here.

Ok, so let's change person and change scenario now…

Let's say Person “B”  went for option 1 after his initial classic reboot. He got his libido back, but now, as he's started to have sex, he keeps falling back into a flatline after each session…

This is a actually a very common scenario.

If this happens I would recommend the following to him…

Moving forward protocol for Person “B”…

  • Proceed with option 1 or option 2 for about 45 more days
  • Reassess – Is your libido back?
  • If it is -Proceed with option 3 or option 4
  • If it's not – Do another 45 days of option 1 or option 2
    (Preferably option 1 at this point, as we know that total munk mode indeed was working for him initially).

You are now probably starting to see how experimentation like this is the smartest, and probably also fastest, way out of a long NoFap flatline.

In the scenario above, since we know that that Person “B” initially got his libido back by total monk mode, monk mode was obviously working for him. So when he then fell back into another flatline after he started to have sex, it's pretty easy to give advice there.

Would person “B” recover if he keeps having sex instead of doing the moving forward protocol?

It's totally possible. In fact, he could even be recovering faster that way, but since it doesn't seem to work for everyone, continuing to have sex is not the advice I want to loosely throw out to everyone, in that case.

So how can I even consider the possibility of him potentially recovering faster if he keeps having sex, if he keeps losing his libido after every love making session?

Well, because…

it could potentially be that for some people it's more about the number of tries – with real sex – than the amount of rest time that is helping them the most. So, even if they keep losing their libido, it could just be something they have to go through. For example, you might have to “lose your libido a certain number of times after sex”  -let's say 8 times or so- no matter the amount of time in between. More on this at the bottom of the page where I explain my theory about what the flatline is…

…however,  since we saw how monk mode actually worked for person B's libido, we want to utilize what we already know is really working, in order to make sure he's playing the cards that have been shown to win his libido game. And the theory about the number of tries, is still just that, only a theory.

So, there is also a possibility that going forward with sex too soon could put him back in recovery, wasting both his time as well as making him more depressed and anxious.

Let's say we have a “Person C” as well – who is really stuck in a VERY long flatline

He too did the initial classic reboot for 90 days, after which he has been dabbling around with several of the options. He's been dating, hugging and kissing and even tried sex numerous times. More than 30 times, during a 12 month long period.

He's never really felt connected to his libido during all this time. Sure, he has felt some small glimpses of drive, from time to time, during love making, or during the anticipation of it, but only to about 20-40% of what it should be.

In other words, in terms of libido, he feels dead and broken.

“Person C” has now been stuck in a never ending flatline for 12 months.

Well, here I would actually advice “Person C” to go total “Monk Mode / Option 1 ” for another 120 days and then slowly start climbing up in options.

Something like this…

Protocol for “Person C”

  • Go back to Option 1 for 120 days
  • Continue with option 2 after that – for 45 days
  • Continue with option 3 – for  45 days
  • Reassess. How is you libido doing?
  • If it's stronger – Continue to Option 4 for 
  • If it's even weaker – Go back to option 1 for 45 days
  • If nothing is happening – Go back to option 2
  • Stage 5 = fully fixed. Limitation should no longer be needed

Why this approach?

Well, first, the above is obviously just an example and there is absolutely no way that anyone can know if that's the optimal way forward, it is however an approach created from logical thinking.

Since what “Person C” has been doing hasn't been working, it's clear that his brain would do better with the no arousal method. Because it's not like he hasn't been logging in tries with the other options. He's been trying them for more than a year.

Again, we need to operate under the notion of, “if what you're doing isn't working…”

And since he only did the classic reboot with no arousal in the beginning, we can assume he might need a bit more than those 90 days of no arousal in order to heal.

The above protocol could potentially work really well for him as he gets another, complete break, after which the real life arousing stuff is introduced very slowly again…building it up.

When you'r stuck in a long flatline
the best advice is: BE FLEXIBLE!

So, the takeaway message here is going to be, if you been trying something for a very long time and you're not making progress, change something…

…try something else!

  • If you've been going hard with monk mode, for months on end, and your libido is dead as can be, try introducing some arousing situations. Even a couple of porn-free masturbation sessions could potentially wake it up.
  • If you've been rewiring and fooling around a lot -with occasional sex here and there- for more than one year now, but your libido is still nowhere near what it should be, try going monk mode for 2-4 months again and see what it does for you.

You…have…to…be…flexible!

That's the key to success right there.

What about other situations ?
Can we kickstart our libido with porn free masturbation?

Some guys do indeed find that a few orgasms can kickstart their libido.

This, however, is not something I recommend you should be doing during the initial 90 day classic reboot phase. Not that it would be that destructive for your recovery, but again, it has been shown that, statistically, most people have the fastest recover if they keep arousal to a minimum during the initial 90 day -classic rebooting- phase.

As for ‘kick-starting' the libido with porn-free masturbation, how it'll work it is highly individual. If you do decide to try it, do it with the above four options in mind so you know how to best move forward depending on how your libido responds.

Obviously don't do it during a ‘monk mode phase', if you think such a phase is best for your recovery right now.

What about tools for erection quality?
ED drugs, libido supplements… etc?

These should only be used if you try to go ‘the arousal method', as using them during ‘monk mode' would be counter productive to say the least.

Also, libidos pills should be consider helpful tools only, and they are never to be viewed as some sort of a ‘cure' for your PIED. I think that one is so bloody obvious so I shouldn't even need to point it out, right?

They can be helpful ‘training wheels'

That said, if you've done the first 90 day classic reboot phase and you want to move forward with option 3 or option 4, there is nothing wrong with trying to add a few training wheels.

Just as long as you remain mindful and pay careful attention to how your libido responds during the following weeks of using tools I see no problems with it.

I personally used libido pills during my own reboot…

In fact, I personally used two different libido supplements during my own journey. I really found them to be of great help with my confidence in the bedroom, as I kept rewiring and kept moving up from option 3 to option 4.

Most of the libido pills I tried were completely useless, but in the end I found two that actually worked surprisingly well. In fact, for me, they even worked better that prescription Viagra.

If you're interested in the supplements I found effective, you can discover more, as well as check current pricing over at the online vendor, by clicking on the bullet points below…

Both are over the counter products.

Only to be used if you try to kickstart your libido with the ‘arousal method'…

Remember now; during your initial reboot there's no point in stuffing you full with libido pills. That could even prolong your recovery as the first part of your reboot is about giving your sexual circuitry a complete rest.

These are only an option if you have been rebooting for some time and you want to try kickstart your libido by going the arousal method.

The supplements helped kicked them out of their flatline…

That said, I've had several clients, who struggled with a very long flatline, reporting how adding these supplements to their arousal method, kicked them out of the flatline within just a couple of weeks, permanently.

One reason for this being the case might be because they do indeed heighten the pleasure during intercourse. And then your brain starts to ‘remember' that pleasure in between lovemaking sessions, and thus it may help wake up the sleeping libido when the brain starts wanting and looking forward to more of those sessions.

What else can we do to help speed up the process?

Here I'd like to present another poll I made on my YouTube channel Project Stronger Self.

I asked the following question…

For those of your who experienced a really long NoFap flatline (over 6 months), what activities do you think made the biggest impact on your recovery?

Almost 2ooo people voted and these are the results…

  • Cold showers – 19%
  • Physical exercise – 46%
  • Fasting or intermittent fasting – 5%
  • Socializing and dating – 7%
  • Just trying to not worry so much – and live my life – 22%

Now, I'm not trying to take anything away from my subscribers here, but I do feel obliged to say that I suspect quite a few of the people on YouTube voted even though they do not suffer from a long flatline problem. Just so that they could see the results of the poll (since the results are only visible to those who participate).

Knowing that, you should perhaps take the above results with a grain of salt.

But it's up to you how you judge the results, and all those options are good and healthy brain activities that will for sure help speed things along.

Physical exercise proven to help speed things up (study)….

For example, there is a study showing how physical exercise helps speed up up-regulation of the dopamine receptors in recovering meth addicts.

And since meth is one of the most destructive drugs for your dopamine system, one would assume that physical exercise must also help recovering porn addicts. This is something I talk more about that study in the article – Can the brain really heal from porn use?

Fasting and intermittent fasting…

When it comes to fasting / intermittent fasting, I can personally attest to its efficacy.

I implemented several different fasting regimens during my own recovery and I have to say that I felt like some decent progress had been made after almost every 48 hour fast I did.  This makes sense, as fasting has also been shown to help up-regulate the dopamine system.

I suspect the reson for why fasting only got a 5% vote in the poll is simply because, not that many of my subscribers ever really gave it a decent try.

Cold showers…

Cold showers make you feel great and here too there are some evidence that they might help with dopamine receptor up-regulation. Just exactly how much they help, and if it's enough to make a difference, is something we can only speculate about. But I personally took cold showers during my own rebooting, and I think it made a difference…

…and I still take them to this day….

…at the very least, they make me feel great and I also feel that they increase my motivation and drive (which would be a sign of a good functioning dopamine system).

Socializing and dating…

This one has to be higher than 7%, so I really must say that I do not really trust the poll right here. Remember that quite a few probably voted just so that they could see the results, but hey, I presented the poll and now I'll let you, as the reader, be the judge.

One thing is for sure though, at least during some part of your reboot, socializing and rewiring is a must. This in order to get your sexuality to start responding to real life people instead of pixels on a screen.

Just trying not to worry so much and live my life… 

This is a big one.

Why?

Well, because depression, anxiety and even too much worrying in general, can prolong the flatline. I see examples of this almost every week during my 1 on 1 coaching calls. 

I can not stress enough how important mental health is for your recovery and you should really do your best to live as healthy as possible during your PMO reboot.

If you're depressed, take all the steps you can to try to ease your situation. Get some good professional help and also…

  • Reach out to your friends…
  • Write a gratitude journal…
  • Set goals that you look forward to achieveing (but don't put too much pressure on yourself for now)…
  • Do physical exercise…
  • Be kind to yourself…

Lastly, but not least, try to let go of the outcome…

I know that sounds counterintuitive, but I'm telling you guys, it can really make a big difference.

If we, with anxiety ridden desperation, try to force an outcome, no matter what it is in life, we tend to somehow ‘choke' and block it. This is definitely also true when it comes to getting out of a long flatline.

On the contrary, if we manage to adapt a mindset more of something like, “I'll do all I can do, and then whatever happens happens…it shall be so”…

…well then things tend to get ‘unblocked' and start happening.

This also leads me to the next subheading…

What should we avoid during the PMO reboot process?

The last thing you want to do is to lock yourself inside your house and try to “wait it out”.

In other words, don't put your life on hold just because you're flatlining…

  • Keep doing your hobbies…
  • Keep working on your goals…
  • Keep spending time with your friends…
  • Keep meeting new people…
  • Keep dating (if your choosing the arousal method)…
  • Keep traveling…
  • Keep living!…

I've had so many coaching clients by now that started seeing vast improvements as soon as they started to tear themselves away from the digital world and putting themselves out there, getting out of the house…

…even if they were in the middle of the deepest flatline ever.

Many of them, having been stuck for more than a year started seeing the libido return within a month after doing so. After all, do we even need a libido if all we do is spending time online, while trying to NOT watch porn?…

…right… and maybe your brain feels the same way?

Also, avoid doing too much ‘low value dopamine' driven things…

Another thing you should avoid during your reboot is blasting your reward system with a lot of other instant, low value dopamine activities. Things that take little to no effort, but significantly spike your dopamine.

These are things, like for example…

  • Social media use
  • Video games
  • Gambling
  • Junk food / sugar
  • Alcohol, weed and other drugs
  • Video games

Now, I'm not saying you can't enjoy any instant gratification stuff, but use your own good judgement here, and just know that too much of a good thing can be bad for your dopamine system.

There is a thing called moderation, after all.

And if you already have a numb pleasure response from all the years of using porn, engaging in a lot of other dopamine blasting activities right now may indeed prolong your recovery time. And if you really overdo it, it may perhaps prevent recovery altogether.

If this is something you feel you need guidance on, you can always reach out to me though my contact page right here.

Why exactly is the NoFap flatline and why does it happen?

The flatline is truly a mysterious phenomenon that seems to only affect guys who have been using online porn for quite some time.  Even the great Gary Wilson found the flatline to be strange and had a hard time grasping just exactly why it happens. He had a few speculations, though.

I'm personally working on a video where I will present my own theory about what I believe the NoFap flatline is.

–I will post that video right here when it's done —

So, if this is something that might be of interested to you, make sure to bookmark this page and come back to check after a few weeks or so. But I do have to warn you, though, my theory is also just a speculation. Just like Gary Wilson and other experts have been able to do so far when it comes to the flaltine…speculate and wonder…and speculate again.

In the mean time, thanks for reading.

Need my help? You can reach out to me through my contact page right here.

 

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